Agreed. I've made that point many times before and have been ignored. Why not grab some channels on IRC and have them represent different areas of the castle if you're going to be so anti-substance? There's nothing that says people can't imagine something -isn't- there if you have such a problem with having some kind of content. My imagination comes from the things, places, people I have to work with. Sorry, for being sub par.

There's a rampant bigotry against people who don't have the level of imagination that others do and it's disgusting.

If we put in some visual stuff, you're limited to what you can rp to just...that visual stuff. Soon you'll get bored with that squirrel. That's where imagination really has to come in. I don't really understand how that's bigotry, to me roleplaying is 100% about being able to use your imagination to come up with situations that may not exist exactly as seen on your computer screen, because obviously the mod authors can't read your mind to know that you'll want to do that exact thing. I really can't comprehend rp without imagination.

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Karen Bonoa - Ravenclaw Alumni
Madeline Ingleman - 2nd Year Hufflepuff
Niven McLaren - 1st Year Slytherin
Sam McKinnon - 6th Year Ravenclaw

Jabari Nwosu * Joshua Tannerman * Lenora Hollings * Lillian Stewart * Maria Bonoa

I actually have an example. Last night my Gryffindor was wandering around the castle (somewhat OOC, she was testing quests) and she came across a ginger cat. Being an animal lover she empathed it and took it back to the commons. Further on in her explorations, she discovered another ginger cat ... and then a black one. So the commons now has three resident cats lol. If there hadn't been any physical cats, then there would have been nothing to do and nothing for people to wonder about when they came into the commons. Sticking up an easel (which I can't cast anyway) just wouldn't have been the same.

Even if you had a squirrel you have to RP everything to do with it, as the squirrel isn't scripted to do anything. The actual squirrel just gives you a starting point. Would anyone visit the arabian horses if there weren't any and just a sign was there? All I'm asking for is a visual starting point; you still have to RP everything else. And seeing as you can still RP whatever you want, I don't see why you would get bored with the squirrel.

When Hagrid had the class on slugs, he provided real slugs. Then we just RPed away (some with devastating effects *cough* Ronni *cough*). Sure the actual slugs were just eye candy, but the whole of NWN is eye candy.



This.

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Anastasia McLaren - 4th year Slytherin
Anna Daljera - 3rd year Gryffindor
Shizuka Matsuri - 2nd year Ravenclaw

So, you're saying without the physical cats there, you couldn't have just imagined a cat wandering the halls that might have somehow decided to follow your PC around, or been lured down the hall by your PC? You need the physical thing to be able to come up with creative ideas? If that's the case, then you're completely limited to the capabilities of NwN. Which would really limit what you can and can't RolePlay.
And who's to say anyone will pay attention to the physical thing after you left it in the commons? Someone could just see it and assume it was left there, OOC, and blow it up.

Eye candy is nice, but it's definitely not necessary. That's when the most imaginative RP comes into play.

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"The last man on Earth sat alone in a room.
There was a knock at the door."
-Frederic Brown

If there had been no physical cat then my char would have just walked on because there was nothing there. I did assume the cats were OOC someone testing the pets (especially after finding 3 on the 7th floor), but I decided to treat it IC.

I don't think you're getting the point. Noone is saying that you need the physical cat to RP or to imagine things. Noone would read books without pictures if that was the case lol. But pictures enhance the experience and seeing as we have pictures, then why not use them.

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Anastasia McLaren - 4th year Slytherin
Anna Daljera - 3rd year Gryffindor
Shizuka Matsuri - 2nd year Ravenclaw

I think you just contradicted yourself. That's exactly my point.

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"The last man on Earth sat alone in a room.
There was a knock at the door."
-Frederic Brown

Okay, let me rephrase it. If you had wanted to RP about cats, then you would not have needed a physical cat in order to RP about cats. But, if the physical cat had not been there in this case, I wouldn't have got the idea to RP about them. The physical cat inspired me. But, if I had an idea without having a cat then I wouldn't need a cat for that idea. But why not let the physical cat be there as an inspiration or for use if you do want cat RP, anyway. It just adds stuff.

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Anastasia McLaren - 4th year Slytherin
Anna Daljera - 3rd year Gryffindor
Shizuka Matsuri - 2nd year Ravenclaw

Nope, we're playing NWN rather than PnP because we're not able to gather around a table. NWN is simply the media we use to communicate the RP. That, and it's faster and even a little easier to communicate the RP using NWN than it is PnP.

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-Calan

Liss Crest, Slytherin
Kalara Crest, Hufflepuff
Elizabeth Finley, The Moon

Then why is the mod not just a room with a table and chairs?

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Anastasia McLaren - 4th year Slytherin
Anna Daljera - 3rd year Gryffindor
Shizuka Matsuri - 2nd year Ravenclaw

This is role play, it's not an "RPG" which isn't "RP" at all. The -whole- idea in RP is imagination. Just because this is an RP server, which focuses on RP, doesn't mean we're bigoted against people who can't imagine RP. Sorry, it's just that this is an RP server, that's what we do here is RP.

Why don't we just play in a text only environment? Some of the most vividly visual RP I've ever experienced was text only. And while that is true....

It's because the location, where people are standing, the general appearance of the environment, all that is quickly communicated in a graphic environment, among many other positives. It makes sure everyone is on the same page regarding the environment. It also provides basic standards in the form of scripts and gameplay rules, and provides them a lot faster than PnP can. Real-time, rather than taking several minutes to play out a 6-second turn and requiring a DM presence during -all- RP to describe the environment to standard so that everyone isn't making up their own Hogwarts layout.



But -requiring- that a pixel squirrel (for example) to be present to actually be able to imagine one there is just silly. It's needlessly limiting. Where the graphical environment fails is that it is extremely limiting like this. So when RP dictates a squirrel, use your imagination. Examples:

*runs to Snape and gives him a hug!* <--- That can't be displayed on the screen, so it didn't happen? Seriously?

*walks into the room carrying a huge box* <--- That can't be displayed on the screen, so you can't accept it? Really?

*throws the frisbee to Sierra* <--- Oops, there's no frisbee on the screen. Pixels or it didn't happen. .... right.

*Jack Amesworth pushes harder on the gas pedal with a huge grin on his face, not seeing the rock in the desert that he's about to drive over and then hits it hard, sending all the people in the vehicle clean out of their seats* <--- something like this actually happened on the mod. Fun RP that couldn't have happened without some imagination. Obviously there wasn't a car in the mod.

*looks up from the picnic lunch and leans back on the ice, looking up at the huge striped planet hanging in the sky* <--- picnic within the Europa telescope. There wasn't a basket on the ground, nor was there a Jupiter graphic in the sky.

*Kalara looks out of the window of the car and watches the shops pass by, keeping quiet as the others joke and laugh* <--- happened, I have an extreme -visual- memory of this RP, to the point of actually feeling the texture of the car seats.

There are DM'd scenes that are so vividly graphic that I can't even describe them. Things so horrible that even Liss can't ICly repeat what she saw. Other things so intense that -RT-, our server bada$$, had to step outside for some fresh air so she didn't barf. These things weren't pixels, and while we were within NWN, -nothing- was happening on the screen at all. They were text and imagination.

There are huge advantages to a graphical environment, and I highly support using one. But in these cases above (as well as countless others that happen almost constantly), the graphical environment has failed to properly display the RP. So use your imagination. Likewise, if you're going to go make up something to do, use your imagination, and text emotes to communicate the RP rather than requiring pixels on the screen.

And when pixels on the screen are possible, they aren't always advantageous. We put too many things into the standard environment and now they are standard. Now they have to be there in RP, because they are there on the screen. And now, people depend on those pixels in their RP. It limits what can be done and what can be imagined. I'm not saying that it's always bad, I'm just saying that it causes this to happen.

This:

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-Calan

Liss Crest, Slytherin
Kalara Crest, Hufflepuff
Elizabeth Finley, The Moon

RPG means Role Playing Game. And not everyone RPs with pure imagination, so saying that this is a RP server doesn't preclude having some substance. Why can't we have both? Then each person can RP in the way that they prefer and everyone is happy. Is it really going to spoil your RP experience to have a couple of squirrels around?

I like using the visual environment that I have to RP with. That's one of the reasons I like NWN, because you can actually see your char wandering through places and interacting with things. There is nothing wrong with RPing like that. And I've seen a lot of people on the server use things that were there or could be created and put a lot of effort into decorating places, because it looks cool and provides atmosphere.

If you were playing PnP then you wouldn't be allowed to use something that wasn't in the room, so it's not as if there are no limits.

So, basically, why can't we each RP in the way we prefer and not presume that our way is better. I'm not saying that people who RP with pure imagination should stop that. All I'm asking for are a few props.

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Anastasia McLaren - 4th year Slytherin
Anna Daljera - 3rd year Gryffindor
Shizuka Matsuri - 2nd year Ravenclaw

And it's a complete misnomer because there's nothing even closely resembling role play within just about any "RPG" I've ever seen, NWN included, with the exception of actual role play servers. Almost every PnP D&D game I've played was also nearly completely void of any real role play. It might as well have been a board game.



This isn't the point. The point is that not having a squirrel in the mod, or other visual objects, in absolutely no way means there's "nothing to do." That's the point. But the answer to your question anyway, is that "Yes, it can, and yes, it has before." But let's keep on topic.



Yes, I believe I pretty much said the same thing with different words. I am in support of a graphical environment with atmosphere and a standard of various objects.



There -are- a few props. They are all over the place. But like has been pointed out by others, they got boring because they don't change:



... or whatever it is that's visually added in. That's the failure of the graphics engine that I've been trying to explain. At some point, you're going to have to start imagining, or you're going to get bored. This just simply -is- true. It's not:



... this is a simple fact with real role play in an environment like NWN. This isn't a standard RPG, this is real role play. This isn't a matter of who's "way" is better, this is a matter of the limitations of the tool that we use to RP.

So. Perhaps we'll add back in "squirrels..." (we -do- want to put things back into the forest) ... but you'll be bored of those too, within a week or two. No amount of visual additions to the module will satisfy this, because no matter what, it will always be limited. Any graphics oriented RPG you will play for a while, then put it away, because you're done with what the graphics can offer. This server is different, because it's imagination based.

I've always said that 90% of role play on the server takes place in the text window and our imaginations. Only 10% is the graphics engine. This is because you'll never get the graphics engine good enough. If you're looking for that, you will be disappointed. You'll run out of things to do, because the content of the graphics is extremely limited. If you choose to RP your "way" as you put it, then go for it! No one's stopping you. This thread was started by you, not by someone else complaining about how you RP. But you need to understand that your "way" has placed limitations on you, by your own choosing. It's not fair to others to expect them to pick up your slack for you just because of the "way" you have decided to use.

So I stick with my original suggestion to you: If you've got nothing to do, stay IC, and go RP something.

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-Calan

Liss Crest, Slytherin
Kalara Crest, Hufflepuff
Elizabeth Finley, The Moon

While players should be totally encouraged to go ahead and imaginatively RP whatever they'd like within the bounds of setting possibility, sometimes it's not so much the wanting to use graphics as a crutch, it's looking for something (anything) to use as a springboard and extrapolate into more RP from there.

If I'm sat down with my character and another character in a blank room, yes, they could come up with something to do. Silly as it is, I guess they could RP that some cats showed up for no reason. Some people are great at playing a character, but not so spectacular at playing the environment at the same time.

If I'm sat down in that same exact situation, but suddenly there's a portrait of a freaky monster on the wall in that room... RP opportunity is instantly provided in that direction, and something simple like that might inspire hours of fun in the right hands. They can talk about the portrait and come up with wild theories why it might be there, or investigate it, or try to copy it in a drawing, any number of things. Or they can briefly acknowledge it and proceed to have a bunch of cats show up for no reason. Choice is a cool thing!

And here's another neat catch: these things don't even have to be graphical at all, a text description left behind by another player or a DM can have the same effect just as well. The graphics just sometimes help describe it faster, as was said earlier.

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Corinne Beckett - Inherited flower shop and eventually relocated to Diagon Alley.
Michael Draufy - Went to America to study native magical creatures. Still visits Anastasia.
Jade Celine - Married Peran and became a magical archaeologist.
Ana Celine - Took her revenge and vanished into the night.
Space Dog - Some say it still roams the halls of Hogwarts in search of petting.

This entire conversation has made me sad.

We don't intentionally try to hurt people who need more concrete visuals, nor do we purposefully limit visuals. Nor is having a healthy imagination disgusting.

Come on people... really?

Pinky pie has straight hair now. :/

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Sierra Tillery - Little Lambs Orphanage Manager and Ministry of Magic Education Dept.
Anula Bhaskar - Hufflepuff
Crissy Darby - Gryffindor
"I sense a costume opportunity!"

Yup, I agree with all that. Those are great examples.

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-Calan

Liss Crest, Slytherin
Kalara Crest, Hufflepuff
Elizabeth Finley, The Moon