Before I get on with the main point: Yes, fewer players are on because of holidays, school, etc. It pretty much started on Thanksgiving. This happens every year like clockwork.

I agree with Chance too. But there's another side to this. Leave well enough alone and "well enough" is people logging in and staring at the wall, AFKing and doing the absolute minimum to produce RP. Then people log out because that's boring. The issue here is have enough respect for your own character and the players around you to stay IC and engaged in your RP. There is a pandemic on the server of people thinking it's ok to multitask, because "nothing's happening." News flash: nothing's happening because everyone's multitasking. People think they can handle it, but it's NOT true.

Honestly, I'm having a hard time wanting to be on my own server because of exactly this. Everyone around me feels disengaged from their RP. "None of this was ever a problem" is not true. It's a problem because even the host is bored to tears, and can do nothing about it. RP is almost utterly stagnant because no one is engaging, everyone is multitasking and distracted. People are uncomforable leaving the "same old," but the "same old" is stale.

I'm frustrated because everyone seems to want the DMs to fix this, but every time we try no one seems to want to engage. And yet there are still complaints. If this was "never a problem," then why are we having to deal with complaint after complaint expecting us to fix these things? And so we make moves to fix some of these problems, and get reamed because we are being "restrictive" as we try our damnedest to attempt to pull people out of their stale little bubbles. As much as these topics make some not want to bother logging in, shocker, they have the -same- effect on -me-. This is something that -must- be fixed.

Everything is questioned, every action is debated, every IC downer is OOCly scrutinized, lack of RP is blamed on someone else. The players do this. The DMs as players do this. People are too impatient to stay IC when there's a lull, 10 seconds for a reply and someone's off browsing a web page distracting themself. We RP contrary to a school of magic, and wonder why the "magic" is gone. I, of everyone, has been a -massive- supporter of a very open RP standard. But that ends when the RP -stops- because people are are too lazy to keep the magic in the environment, too distracted with other games/websites/TV/whatever, or get so isolated that people stop interacting.

So I agree. It's stopped being fun in way too many ways. We are a community, and while the DMs have been busting our asses every free RL moment we have, it's up to more than the DMs to fix these if we want a fun place to RP. And it's going to be fixed because due to these issues which apparently not really a problem, I've dealt with almost nothing but drama or OOCness from players and DMs alike almost every moment I'm on the server. It's not fun. It not fun to the point I am experiencing -anxiety- over logging in or even checking the forums. It's not fun to the point that I'm seriously considering simply not doing it any more, because the solution is in the court of the community as a whole and it doesn't seem to want to hear it. And our playerbase isn't large enough to support students constantly skipping out on classes and events. Play isolationist characters who -want- to skip all you like, but it's not realistic OOCly to constantly be gone. They -need- to interact with other characters because they are in a school, and would be even against their IC will. People aren't doing it on their own, so we've made an extremely mild step to overcome this issue because PLAYERS have complained about it.

So yes, I agree with Chance. But I pin the problem in a different place. So here's what needs to happen. It's simple. Stay IC. Have as much fun as you possibly can, but stay IC. That means full screen NWN if you have to and shut off the television while you're RPing. Shut down the web browser, put down the book. Those things -DO- pull you out of your character's mind. It means stop thinking about what's going on in an OOC manner, testing everything that happens, and keep in your characters' heads. Stop with the constant OOC discussion of every little detail while you're "RPing," because that more than anything else is -creating- the OOC-ness. Figure out ways to be tolerant of others' RP (or even lack thereof) rather than nitpicking it to death. Their failures, perceived or real, is no excuse for shutting down your own RP. DMs: You are often just as guilty of nitpicking and micromanaging of RP.

If you guys want this server around, then do what's necessary to keep it: role play, focus on your role play, your -own- role play, stay in character, and keep it realistic to the environment and lore we're RPing in. It really is that simple, that's -all- we are asking, and I'm angry that this is apparently too much to ask. (Angry enough that Yendys FORCED me to edit my "creative" wording in a few places... >.>)

(Some of you ARE RPing and staying IC. I thank those who are. But the collective habits of this server NEED to change.)

_________________
-Calan

Liss Crest, Slytherin
Kalara Crest, Hufflepuff
Elizabeth Finley, The Moon

Yendy's I wasn't specifically targeting you with that post. That was not my intention.



I said that in the hopes that no one was offended. I just am just tired of post after post of what we should, shouldn't, can, could, etc.....be doing with our roleplay. I get where you are coming from though.



Well, was this some satire post or were you wanting people to just giggle at it? Thats what I mean by it being serious and it because of that, that this is serious.
And Roleplay should be taken as such to a certain degree but I think sometimes it goes overboard with post after post after post after post. Lets just make a Index to "How to Roleplay" and be done with it. Lets focus on more important things like roleplaying itself.



I don't think you guys do that at all. I understand that you are trying to better the player/server in general.



First, I hope that my post wasn't targeting anybody specifically at anyone. I think there is some great things going on the server and a lot of hard work that goes into it. And I wasn't pointing fingers at the DMs. That was my meaning to when I said 'There used to be only 2-3 DMs' but obviously there is now a few more than that. So, I feel like that should not make people so stressed out being a DM and not being able to roleplay their own individual characters. And I am sorry that you all feel that way.

Second, regarding my phrase "never been an issue". It hasn't been an issue from my in and out going on Seven plus years of being on the server. There were no complaints about that kind of thing back in the day. So, why is it all of the sudden now brought up and has to be such a huge issue? That I don't think is really an issue that needs to be consistently brought up. People are going to do what they want. When they want. Thats unfortunately how people view things now days. Especially when the internet is so readily available to anyone. BUT I do agree that it is something that people shouldn't be doing because it does distract from good roleplay. BUT I think that if people get engaged into meaningful roleplay than these things aren't going to be distracting.

Finally, I think what you said Calan hits it on the head with being focused on our own Roleplay. It goes with both sides Players and DMs. It doesn't really make the nail sink in though. And I am no expert on these things...these are just my thoughts, as I have been really trying to want to play on the server but then end up not coming on. I'm just going to end my post here before I rant to much longer but its unfortunate that this has to be so frustrating for everyone.

Chance, thanks for your post.

Just to answer a couple things... believe it or not, I'm genuinely thrilled that it's "never been an issue" for you. I am! However for us as DMs, this is an issue because it's oft complained about. You ask why now, and not before? It's not new. However, you're right that it's been greatly increased as of late. Why? I don't know... but complaints about this -has- increased, and unfortunately, it lands on us, specifically me and Yendys. (And "rightly" so, we're the admin.) My only point is that we get complaints, make attempts to fix said complaints, and get complaints about it. It's a no-win, and -that- is no fun.

I should point out that "back in the day," the playerbase was -fantastic- at policing itself. A distracted player was a HUGE no-no. Someone posting on Facebook while RPing would get you slammed (usually in a positive way, but not always) by the playerbase, not the DMs. It was just -known- that you should be focusing on your own RP. After all, that's why you logged in- to RP. At some point along the way, the very culture of this server has changed to be one of distraction rather than focused RP. Words can't express how damaging this is to RP. And what's worse is that it's very difficult to really see this from the inside. Because... you're distracted.

_________________
-Calan

Liss Crest, Slytherin
Kalara Crest, Hufflepuff
Elizabeth Finley, The Moon

Double post ftw...

About the RP list... that's already in place. People don't read it. I think discussion is the only way to improve this. The way to end the discussion is to actually make the necessary changes. This won't fix itself.

I understand how hard it is to avoid distracting yourself when you're RPing with a distracted player. It's a -hard- urge to fight. It's frustrating to be getting back half-answers, 2-5 minutes between posts. It's so tempting to just go find something interesting to do in the mean time.

The better solution, and I'm asking ALL of you to do this: politely ask your RP buddy to knock it off. And to the one being asked to knock it off: DO NOT make excuses. Admit you were distracted, apologize, then knock it off. Or excuse yourself from RP until you can focus again. DO NOT take it personally that someone cares enough for their RP with you that they would like you focused on it. And if they were wrong about you being distracted, don't take that personally either.

-I- have RPd distracted -way- too much. Perhaps I'm to blame for making it "ok" to do on the server, I don't know. But that doesn't make it ok to do. It's exceedingly harmful. I expect you all to hold -me- to this as much as yourselves.

I -understand- that an occasional temporary distraction happens, but if it's more than a few moments, officially AFK and excuse yourself from RP until it passes. If you're going to be more than a few minutes, have your character completely leave the scene. And while you're at your character, be in their mind and not browsing the web or whatever it is you personally do. And have the respect for your fellow players and your own character to keep solidly focused on your RP to the best of your ability.

We are all here because of a common interest in RP. Far more so than Harry Potter, it's RP that we are here for. We need to make that the -reason- we are here. RP, stay IC, FOIC. These things are what makes the server actually work.

_________________
-Calan

Liss Crest, Slytherin
Kalara Crest, Hufflepuff
Elizabeth Finley, The Moon

Before I start I would like to suggest extracting the content about "mandatory" classes and making it its own thread instead of sliding it in all sneaky like.

I'd also like to add that people take a smoke break, sleep break, pixelated destruction break, or w/e helps you chill. It can be difficult to understand the emotion behind text (or .gifs) (ie: I RP a bitter realist who can be mistaken for an [censored] but that does not make me one irl, quite often I am a jokester and crack jokes to diffuse a tense situation).

We're are one big dysfunctional online family. I kill you!! This server is our home, if it wasn't, we'd all be killing pixels or making pixels or tabletop RPing elsewhere. The problems we face are complex and resources spread thin. It is not just a single person we can point fingers at, everyone has played a role in the chaos.

The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one and on one of those steps later is coming to terms that you may be contributing to said problem(s). To make things a little simple, I am just going to toss things into a list-ish like format.

DMs:
PLEASE! I implore you to read over this (8 page) guide on DMing. For now I wont name names and hope those in power have the opportunity and ability to self evaluate. I've used it on countless occasions to help identify problems in my style of DMing as well as helped with some PCing through out my RP career. Also, Players, please feel free to read over the excerpt as well.

Players: (This means everyone, including myself and the DMs)
An object at rest, stays at rest. An object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an external source. I'm glad people have started emoting their private actions more (ie: *is quietly speaking with some jerk named Mai*) but ideally, we could still use a little more motion. Yes, the Entrance Hall is kind of the hub for interaction. Yes and no. Its only the hub because you it make so. Airplanes do not just chill in their hubs. They move around, visit other areas/hubs. People! We (our characters) are the airplanes and our passengers are RP. RP doesn't want to sit in Kansas (I apologize to any one here who live and love Kansas, but I personally find your state boring) all day. It wants to visit exotic places! Like France, Germany, Japan, Egypt, Brazil, or even the bathroom!

This next one is a tiny one. Put more effort into your emotes. *talks to Reginald E. Barclay III like a jerk* Ooookay? Sure, I have an idea on how a "jerk" speaks to someone but could you please be a little more descriptive? The laziness weakens the illusion of RP.

There is no love train. There is only Zuul.

I often hear people complain of isolation. This is perhaps one of the biggest blights on the server. With a dwindling player base, and occupied DMs, the isolation becomes painfully apparent. As of right now there is no for sure method and possibly never will be. All I and others can ask is that players be aware and maybe try and shake up their daily routine a little. And yes, "couples RP" is a form of isolation. Four couples (8 people), each in their own hidden corner of the server. Any additional players are left hard pressed to locate others to RP or socialize with. So we are more often than not left to write our own lonely Harry Potter themed fanfics via our avatars and submit our logs to the DMs to make sure we are not god modding our progress. Like I said, there is no well developed solution for this and all I and/or others can ask is you be aware and shake up your routine on occasion.

Which brings me to my final bit. The mandatory classes kind of comes off as a double-edged sword. Which I believe may be why some players are up in arms. Yes, double-edged swords are scary and if not wielded with care can cause more damage than desired. I'll admit I am wary of this new method considering the dangers, but I have faith that the DMs will not chop off all our fingers with clumsiness. So I say, be wary, that's your right, but do not be ignorant. Let the experiment progress and watch to see if anything comes of it. After all, you must prune a rosebush on occasion to truly let it flourish.

_________________

This is in no way at all a 'tiny one'. When someone you're Roleplaying with is obviously showing signs of distraction and you send them 3 sentences worth of Roleplay and you get a *Grins* "Yeah." in return, it's demoralizing. Your Roleplay starts to fade, and theres having been nonexistent, leaves you eventually not Roleplaying with each other at all; waiting for the other to say something.

This 'lack of effort' in presented Roleplay is a huge pet peeve. Unless your character is quite literally that boring, or purposefully ignoring another person, your Roleplay should be intensive. You can ask Mai, for instance; I usually overwhelm her with long paragraph responses. [Doesn't help I type ten times faster than her ;D Slow poke]

This factor, when taken into consideration under a 'Constructing Better Roleplay' style thread, should be nailed on the head over and over and over and over and over and over and over with a [censored] +9,000 Nail-Hitting Hammer of Nail-Hitting.

In some manners, this is the base of our distracted roleplaying issue; in some if not most aspects.

_________________
The Criminal - Sliver Vortec - Expelled
The Brain - Skylar Dune - Seventh Year
The Athlete - Lance Silverston - Seventh Year
The Basket Case - Drathil Vortec - Seventh Year

"Everybody prefers to see a nut - they're more fascinating." - Penn Jillette

Well I was going broad spectrum but when you narrow it, I does appear bigger.

_________________

I agree and disagree.

I agree that being lazy and distracted is bad and should be avoided.

Sometimes, though, people just can't think of things to say, and that's why they're not saying much. It happens to literally everyone, and I do mean everyone, but I understand that when it's happening to someone else, there's no way to know that they're not simply distracted so it gets frustrating.

And sometimes people are vague on their emotes simply because they can't think of more detail to put into it. Not everyone is capable of turning the action of scratching their nose into a five paragraph essay, and I don't think they should punished or made to feel bad for it.

Definitely put as much effort into your RP as you can and don't be distracted, but also be mindful that some people are simply doing the best that they can.

I am going to agree and disagree too, on the emotes. At the foundation, I -fully- agree that more description can be a boon. I will admit that I have slid here, and I only too occasionally make attempts to change my habits. I will work on this myself.

But where I disagree, or at least am wary, is feeling that it's necessary to "write a book" or even a paragraph for every emote. This can be actually quite horrible for RP as it takes up time to write, and time to read. I have also seen it get to the point of almost OOC competitiveness as to who can write the better book emote, as a measure of how well you RP. RP has little to do with how long emotes are.

So some middle ground is nice. Sometimes a simple *sits* can be to the point enough. And sometimes *sits on the sand, looking annoyed that it's a little damp* might add just a little more atmosphere. Massive creativity isn't required, just a little more thought.

I too have seen an improvement in emoting actions, and I think it's very good. The rule of thumb is any time that someone else in the room -could- see something, emote it in talk. Even if no one else is there... it's simply a good habit to be in. That and with invisibility, and even DMs who may be in the area trying to come up with something that may be RPable, you should never assume that no one is there. Emote for their sakes too.

_________________
-Calan

Liss Crest, Slytherin
Kalara Crest, Hufflepuff
Elizabeth Finley, The Moon

I'm not saying give a book in your Roleplay. I'm talking about:

~ Instead of sitting there and whispering with someone and locking everything to the whisper; extend some of your emotes and expressions to talk. If your character is crying, everyone can see this, don't just leave it to the whisper. And if they're hiding it, hint to it in talk; they're not Masters of Disguise. If your character is whispering with someone while standing in front of a Professor and receiving disciplinary actions, MAKE SURE THAT ITS ROLEPLAYED! No characters currently on the server are ventriloquists.

~ Don't just sit there and not roleplay anything and assume that everyone is just picking up that you're still there and your character just doesn't know what to say. If your character doesn't know what to say, you can still emote things. I'm not saying give us a book of emotes in replace of your lack for conversation. I'm saying the simplest reminder emote that you're there, like: *Scratches his chin and looks between everyone, unsure of what to say.*, *Looks between whoever speaks, just listening and remaining quiet.*, *Stares off into space, seeming distracted and (unusually?) quiet.*, *Doesn't say anything, just staring at....*, *Sighs and just looks to the floor.*. - There is at least half a dozen easy emotes that someone could use just to simply remind the other players you're still there; and trust me it can go a long way. When you have to OOCly ask the person if they're still there because they haven't Roleplayed for so long, that's bad. I probably roleplay the closest Character to a literal statue, and I still at least -roleplay- being a statue.

I understand that sometimes your character isn't doing much. Maybe he/she is just sitting there reading. That doesn't mean he/she isn't doing things while reading that you could still be roleplaying. It's not some sort of excuse to go be distracted somewhere else until someone else in the Entrance Hall Roleplays with you. You can roleplay him/her: needing to go to the bathroom, flipping the page, biting his/her nails while reading, narrowing eyes at the book, etc etc etc.

I've stood in the Entrance Hall, during the day, with someone else, and literally not received a single emote from them the minute they walked in to the minute -I- left several RL hours later.

~ And when someone puts a lot of effort into the Roleplay to set up the scenario as best as possible to share imagination with you; try to return that to some degree. If I roleplay:

*He takes the vial and holds it over the Cauldron daringly, staring at her with a mix of disturbance and frustration; his hand hovering dangerously over the Cauldron. The vial visually starts to slip from his hand due to the sweat of the heated situation, daring itself closer to the cauldron, and therefore closer to the disastrous situation. He narrows his eyes at her and awaits her response, her following words prepared to weigh a large amount on his next action.*

And someone responds with:

*Gasps!*

And then don't say anything else after that, expecting you to Roleplay your next move, and you're sitting there so befuddled by the lack of emotion that you expect the person to continue with some manner of talk, or -something-... And then five to ten minutes later you find yourselves no roleplaying and wondering if the other person is AFK.... It becomes a huge mess. A huge mess that could be diverted with the simplest bit of OOC add-on in your emote, such as:

*She gasps, biting her lip and eyeing him; her eyes darting between him and the vial. She seems at a loss for words, not saying or doing anything.*

You literally just roleplayed doing -nothing-, you didn't out-roleplay the other person, you didn't write a book, but it was a -world- more helpful than the previous.



I'm not saying I'm anything close to perfect at any of these, I need to work on some points here too.

_________________
The Criminal - Sliver Vortec - Expelled
The Brain - Skylar Dune - Seventh Year
The Athlete - Lance Silverston - Seventh Year
The Basket Case - Drathil Vortec - Seventh Year

"Everybody prefers to see a nut - they're more fascinating." - Penn Jillette

Necro's last post really pointed out the main topic I'd like to talk about, and that is not emoting. I, too, have seen multiple people in EH just standing/sitting there, not doing anything. This isn't just one person, this is several people. -My- rule of thumb is: as soon as someone enters the room, emote what they are doing. For instance:

Anywhere from this: *Cray is working on chainmail, a black blanket spread out in front of him with several different colored metal coils of wire on the blanket. There is also a pair of wire cutters and pliers...* etc, etc...

To this: *Cray is staring off into space at the floor, chewing on his lip idly. It's obvious that he's very deep in thought.*

The later is -literally- roleplaying them doing nothing. Hell, you could roleplay *Breathes* and have it be better than nothing. Staring off into space -does- create RP, believe it or not. It, too, annoys me to be RPing up a storm, emoting a bunch, and then look over to see someone else in the room that I hasn't emoted a -single- thing since they came in. They could have been in there for hours, and just due to my NWN camera and my player list not up, I may have missed out on more RP, you may have missed out on RP... Emoting is -the only- way to get Roleplay. No one wants to be roleplaying with a wall. I don't think anyone on the server is -that- bad, but I'm just stating my point.

As for standing in the EH for several hours RL. Continue emoting, at -least- when other people are in the room.

*Sneezes.*
*Coughs a few times.*
*Yawns, making a tiny squeeking noise afterward.*
*Sighs, leaning back on the pillar and folding their arms and shifting the weight from foot to foot boredly.*
*Pulls out a pair of magical headphones and puts them into their ears, nodding a bit to the music.*
*Softly sings under their breath.*
*Closes their eyes and begins to nod off, their head falling a bit and jumping back awake.*

The options are endless. This doesn't have to be every minute. Just occasionally to let others know you're free to RP. If you aren't free to RP, don't be in an RP zone. Go to the afk room, even when no one is on. That way, if someone does get on while you're afk, you are no longer in an RP zone.

Another thing on this subject. Please, PLEASE, PLEASE emote back. If your character is ignoring Cray for saying something stupid, I -want- to know that:

*She rolls her eyes at Cray for saying that.*
*He blinks slowly at Cray, looking utterly unimpressed.*
*Just stares at him with a blank expression.*
*Has no comment to that.*
*Just continues staring at the ground.*

Sitting there for several minutes, waiting for an emote that will never come because "the character isn't doing anything", is extremely damaging in my opinion. I don't know if you're afk, or if the character is ignoring mine, or etc, etc. Please don't assume that I know what your character is thinking, because I don't. We need hints to be able to continue RPing. This -includes- group RP. Just because other people are RPing around you does not mean you should stop. Continue emoting, even if you're rping, *Looks around everyone who's speaking in turn.* *Sits there quietly still.* *Still doesn't say anything.* Once again, not every minute, but just occasionally. This is another thing that feels like "I'm RPing with a wall." Once again, no one is this bad, but just getting my point across.

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~ShalynArater~
..... Cray Calcifer Fencrow - Xabriel Seth RaventongueGryffindor - Gryffindor