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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:40 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:11 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:28 am 
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Ok. This is a post that I use to clarify my own thoughts about it. I think I'm on the same page as the DM team, so that's cool. But I may also use that post as a friendly reminder to myself, from time to time.

Sorry, it will be a loooong post.
TL;DR: read only the orange bits. :wink:


So. A little bit of context first. I played NWN in 2002-2003 when it has been released, then came back a few months ago. During that period of time, my tabletop/pen&paper roleplaying habits have changed a lot.

Now, fun fact. In France, a whole lot of roleplaying gamers despise dungeon crawling. Nevertheless, D&D is also one of the main RPG here. And it's aaaall about the roleplaying. You will never ever encounter a gamer that will say 'I want to create a powerful character'. Because he would be a "bad" gamer. It's all about the psychology and the roleplay. But in a Storytelling/White Wolf sense (meaning a GM has written a story and you, the players, re-enact it). I frankly don't know if they use D&D to "Storytell" fantasy adventures. Which would be broken and maybe that explains why they hate D&D so much. I have no idea why they don't use another game...
(But it's slowly changing... so that's cool :D )

D&D is about exploring dungeons and killing dragons. That's it. It does that good. But it does only that.

Let me be clear: my -personal- taste (I insist on that, I'm not telling they are better or whatever), I'm not really into dungeon crawling but if someone offers me to play a dungeon crawling, I would be okay. Why not, right? But only if it's a dungeon crawling and -not- a Storytelling fantasy game where you tell me a story you've written with a game that is about dungeon crawling. Because it will suck. I've played for almost ten years, I know that for a fact.

NWN is a D&D game, true. But I think the point of this server is not about killing dragons and exploring dungeons. I've read that some players are here to immerse themselves into the Harry Potter universe. I can understand that, I respect that but I genuinely disagree. If you want to immerse yourself into the Harry Potter universe, go read the books; if you can't or don't want, go watch the movies. But don't play a game. Another fun fact: I've never read a Harry Potter book and never seen a single movie.

It is a roleplaying server. And roleplaying games are about telling stories. The Harry Potter universe is the setting, I totally agree, but you are not telling stories about a setting, right? We are telling stories about characters.

Let me emphasize this: we are telling stories about characters.

Each of these four words are important.

We. That means: you and me as players, and the DM. Now, in NWN, it's even truer because there is not always a DM available, so it's a game sometimes without DM, DM-less you may say. And if it's a GM-less game, that means all of us are GM. That means we all have power over the narrative part of the game.
What I'm telling you in game is true; you may disagree, then I will change a little bit of what I've told you until we reach an agreement; but in the end of the day, I'm creating the world, its inhabitants, its plots, its stories.

And this is where the telling part comes in. We are telling stories. We are not re-enacting a story written down by someone else. Telling a story is creating a story, much as a GM would do with improvisation.

Not the best part is, to tell good stories, I, as a player, need your help. To tell a good story, I need you to know what kind of story I want to tell.

So, right here, some may say that's metagaming. And that's bad. Yeah, it's metagaming. We know that we play a game and we use information we have OOC to play the game. But it's good. Because you want me to know about all of your dirty secrets. What's the use of your ten-pages backstory if you are the only one to know about it?

If -I- know it, if -you- (the player) tell me about it, I can make my character do some crazy things with your story. If I don't know, I just can't. I can't read your mind, sorry.

So, in another post, I will reveal all the backstory of my character (Eleonor Riverbanks) and what kind of stories I want to tell with her. So that you and I could create wonderful stories about it. I'll probably post that into my character bio. In the Roleplaying section.
Yeah, sue me! :P

And I trust you, without any doubt, to be able to differentiate between what you know as a player and what your character knows. And to post here on this very forum, as a player, questions about it, in order to guide the way you will interact with my character, if needed be.

Also, if I'm not saying out loud what I want for my character, how could the DM possibly know?

It's not about the "what", it's about the "how"...

As a DM, you want the characters to be crazy awesome. But you want to push them hard to see when they break, what kind of things they are willing to do. What really defines them.

Stories are about change, a protagonist is someone who evolves during the course of the play. The antagonists are those who support this change. Yes, I'm telling you that you are my antagonists, guys :D

Not my enemies. But my antagonists. I'm playing a kid/teen and you are so much influential, you have no idea. The people that I meet defines her personality, influences her. In good or in bad, I don't care. But my character is not the same as in the beginning, alone in the welcome room, still undefined. She is a protagonist, I care about her and I'm enthusiastic about what will happen next -because I have no idea!-

And for me (I insist on that: for me), this is the theme of this server. It's not about the Harry Potter universe. It's about teens that are at a period of their life where they will evolve so much and be influence by others; and about who they will become in the end, what kind of person... The magical/fantasy part is just there to amplify the theme.

Now, we may sit here and talk about what the plans we (don't) have for the day, or eat breakfast, lunch and dinner. We can hang out, do some pillar-squatting. Talk about nothing that really matters. That's all fine from time to time. But in the long run, that's boring, right? There is no event, nothing happens.

First, we don't need DM to make event, do we? Yes, I'm limited with the NWN game engine because I'm not logged in as a DM. I can't create a dragon out of nowhere, I can't make a NPC talk, I can't teleport you. But I have a tool: my character; and my imagination which is useful to tell stories (and thankfully imagination is a wide rich thing). And I can tell you what happens: you won't see the dragon (except if a DM intervenes), but it is here. Because I say so and you agree. Now, what do we do? (Of course it's just an example: I won't make a dragon appear, because it's just lame and lazy :wink: ).

Stories are about conflicts. Conflicts are not just combat, no no no. Conflicts arise when something is at stakes, when there is a risk. When I can lose something. It can be my life, my honour, my pride, the necklace that my grandma gave me on her deathbed, your love, whatever. When I want something from you and you don't want to give that to me. It may be your lunchbox, your consideration or your friendship, whatever. It's about dilemmas and hard, meaningful choices. Do I really want that, -that- hard?

Fight me. Oppose me. Ally me. Betray me. Hurt me. Be friendly with me. Be harsh with me.
Because you are good. Because you're evil. Because you don't like me. Because, more precisely, you have a reason for that.

It sounds hard. But it's so simple. You just need to trust me as a player, because I want to find out how awesome your character is and I want to help you telling a good story about your character. Just as you do about mine. But you have to tell me in the first place or I cannot help you...

It may be nothing, it may not be the best idea in the world. Doesn't matter.
My character for example is not that hard to define. She's quite simple. But she is changing. And her story entertains me way much better than a complex story that I don't care about. It's because I'm involved. I care for her story. I don't know how it will end, but I'm curious.

Now, read my character bio when I'll update it to explain what Ellie is all about, what she is doing, what I envision for her. And how you can mess with that. Then come to me with even the simplest idea and we'll create a good story out if it, together. Let's just play to find out! And let's be awesome! :wink:

So yeah, sorry for this (is this a kind of a rant? I can't tell... I see that much more that as a stream of thoughts). Long time since I've been playing NWN; truth is, I had no idea how to RP in a videogame and a forum... The medium is different, right?

Yeah, I think I know how I'll be playing NWN on this server now. As a tabletop RPG. If you don't want that, if you don't want to be part of the awesomeness, well, avoid me! If you do, you're very welcome and, again, just tell me and we'll figure it out!

You've been warned! :lol:

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Eleonor Riverbanks - 2nd year Ravenclaw


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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:06 am 
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(Note: beyond this point is a BF RP Rambletm and not an official DM position)

I may not completely agree on some of the specific types of RP that I'm looking for, in that the fantasy/magical aspect is pretty fun and important for me to include and I'm not crazy about the friend-risking melodrama, but I think you're right on target in terms of what would be an awesome approach to take in crafting a story with another player to RP. I'd be very happy to see more of this kind of thing happening! It's something that happened a lot a long time ago, but somewhere along the line people seem to have gotten it into their heads that they're required to RP as their own individual character in pure 1:1 fashion and not allowed to put any other influence on their story. This doesn't need to be metagaming. It can be as small as sending your character for help on a perfectly ICly plausible project, just because you wanted an excuse to interact with x character who is known to be good at that subject.

Now, I do think there is a place for this kind of individual "passive" RP, and it could even work quite often as a majority or else everyone's stories would get tangled up, but if -everyone's- doing that then there's no current events or group activities anymore outside of what a DM sets up, and the RP devolves into pillar-sit and private couples stuff only, which is what we've been seeing lately... So, in the interest of mitigating that, I'm more than interested in seeing what this approach could bring! Personally, I usually put my "active" RP energy into creating events. A couple times recently I haven't been able to do this because there's nobody around who can participate, but it's my intention to run a few more, at least.

You don't have to do it every day or even every week - but once in a while, anyone can spend a few moments thinking up something to throw in as "active" RP. Even better if it's done through collaboration towards character development as was suggested, but every little bit helps. It can be as small as losing and finding your rat or as big as losing and finding(?) your mind. Players can do this. If you're not sure if it's OK to RP a particular scenario, just ask a DM, there's usually one of us around, or there's always PMs too.

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Michael Draufy - Went to America to study native magical creatures. Still visits Anastasia.
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Ana Celine - Took her revenge and vanished into the night.
Space Dog - Some say it still roams the halls of Hogwarts in search of petting.


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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:44 am 
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In a way, that kind of ooc information is what your character's bio thread is about. I'm not advocating posting every single detail of backstory on there, because I think it's nice to have some things reserved for a FOIC(find out in character) surprise, but it's especially helpful to have information about their work in classes, for example, in the bio. It helps both other players(trying to find out where they might know your character from) and DMs. To use BF as an example, I had an OOC conversation with them a few weeks ago where we discussed things that Jade Celine were interested in. Most of those things, I had no idea! It really opens up my options as a DM to know that Jade is interested in, for example, puppets(not really, is example). If I dangle one in her face, I now know that she'll immediately be hooked on whatever plot I'm offering, whereas before I was always guessing, "well, she kind of likes charms, right? I can make it sparkly and hovery..."

It's especially nice to see a new player getting the idea that you're all GMs of your own RP. You have the initiative to get up and do something, whether it's organizing a party, a club, or even a character plot. Have your character find a mysterious thing in the dungeons, or half-buried in the ground outside! If it's a magical object, clear the effects with a DM first to make sure you're not giving your character super powers, but you're perfectly authorized to have "character plots" like this running. Another example might be two families having a blood feud. You'd have to arrange this with another player oocly before your chars met, but it would lead to good conflict that isn't just based on drama. What if your characters met and they actually liked each other? Or maybe they do continue the feud, and that's fun too.

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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:26 pm 
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Eleonor:

Thank you for your post, I find myself in agreement with at least most if not all of what you said. Things should always be about the characters, the setting is just where it's happening. I've always seen this as a huge collaborative story in which we are all the authors of our own individual little part.

I do have a word of caution about being overly revealing about your backstory. I used to have my character's backstory on her bio, but I removed it. Her backstory being revealed to a character is an important part of the development between those two characters. I have seen quite a few people over time come to the exact same realization, and remove backstory from their bios. That's not to say it's not allowed, but be cautious. Relying on metagaming (as you put it) for RP development is often a bad idea. Not always, but it can be. I'll clarify:

If you are using backstory to connect two or more players into RP in such a way that it unfolds naturally and in an unpredictable way into the future, that MAY fall into the "acceptable metagaming" category because it's connecting characters to RP. However:

-If you have pre-determined plans for your character's future and story based on backstory and you're hoping to tell that story into the future, that's extremely dangerous in an open RP environment. It's a recipe for a lot of OOC issues, and it's something the server has experienced, so this isn't just theory.

-If you use it to OOCly form bonds/groups that are beneficial to your character this can also obviously be bad because it is unfair to other players who aren't metagaming.

Also please keep in mind that while people may have the best intentions at heart and in mind, there is such thing as unintentional metagaming. If something secret is OOCly known, chances are it won't stay that way for long. OR... people will overcompensate and never touch it out of fear of metagaming. It's usually best to keep IC secrets in a "find out in character" state. (Exception: TELL THE DMs, and we'll record it in your super secret DM-side bio, and see if it can't be used in DM plots. This is the "happy medium.")

I'm not sure that any of this was your intention or what you were getting at in the first place, not saying it is. Just throwing out a word of caution based on many years of server experience. I agree with your post at least in a vast majority, if not completely. I just wanted to clarify on a couple possible issues, and suggest that some things in your character backstory may be best left up to finding out in character. (Some people take this to an extreme as well, keeping even common-knowledge things off their bio, which can be bad too.)

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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:49 am 
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OK, I'll take your word of caution and respect that. You have more experience than me on the server and on the people inhabiting it. So, I won't reveal too much, as I was initially intended to. :D

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Eleonor Riverbanks - 2nd year Ravenclaw


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 Post subject: Re: Roleplaying for Boredies: Your Character and the DMs (OO
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:10 am 
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Bump as an FYI to all new players.

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The Athlete - Lance Silverston - Seventh Year
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"Everybody prefers to see a nut - they're more fascinating." - Penn Jillette


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